My friend Ken and I got into a conversation about religion the other day, which led fluidly to the subject of coitus interruptus.
I know what you’re thinking: isn’t it dicey to talk about religion? Not to worry. Ken and I are on the same page. We’re both apatheists (we don’t know and we don’t care). The coitus part came up in the context of the Bible. Ken said when he was a boy, he and his friends used to read the Bible to find the dirty parts. My first thought was that the porno scene in Kenya, where he grew up, must be pretty bleak.
But then I remembered my stock line when the Jehovah’s Witnesses come around and ask me if I’ve read the Bible. I tell them I tried, but there was too much sex and violence in it. So it makes sense after all.
Anyway, the part where the dude pulls out is in Genesis.
Of course, Genesis! That’s the book that starts with a bang (no word whether it’s a big one) and then it’s just one bang after another all the way through. The passage in question is in Chapter 38. Ken either looked it up on his phone or he had it memorized or that’s where the pages were stuck together. I didn’t ask. But I had a look.
Oh right, poor old Onan. I knew onanism means masturbation but I’d forgotten where it came from. Onan had the unhappy duty of having to follow levirate law and bang his brother’s widow in order to keep his brother’s lineage going. Them’s the rules, sonny boy. God had killed Onan’s brother Er, for some reason, and so Onan was supposed to knock up his widow. Any offspring that resulted would not be considered Onan’s, but his dead brother’s.
That’s not to everybody’s liking. According to the law, if, in fact, the surviving brother is not interested in the widow, she may tattle on him to the elders. And if that doesn’t work, then the widow is within her rights to come up to him right in front of the elders and pull off his sandal and spit in his face, and thereafter the brother will be called “Him whose sandal is removed.” The ignominy! Nobody wants that.
But Onan was not happy. Through no fault of his own, and only God knows why He took out his brother, Onan was put in a position he did not care for. Well, I don’t know what his actual position at the time was, but in any case he pulled out and spilled his seed all over the ground. He did not want to go to all that trouble to create a baby that would not be considered his. Personally, I don’t think it’s all that much trouble, but a woman’s opinion does not count for much in Genesis.
Now God was not happy. This never ends well, and it didn’t. God killed Onan. So much for the family lineage.
A few observations. One, God evidently likes to watch—eww. Two, of all people, “people” being used loosely here, wouldn’t God know that coitus interruptus isn’t a reliable method of birth control? Seems like young Onan should have been given another chance. But God does not like seed being spilled all over the ground. He takes it personally, even though he’s never the one having to clean up after the man has already started snoring.
Anyway, God, if you’re listening, it’s me, Murr. Honey? Pulling out doesn’t work. Ask Afghanistan. United States of America might have pulled out, but it’s still fucked.
I always assumed that the issue here was Onan not wanting to engender a child that wasn’t his. But just now it occurred to me that the issue might be about inheritance. Er was the eldest son of Judah and as such he was in line to receive the greatest share of Judah’s estate. When he died, Onan became next in line. But if Er had any sons (whether born directly from his seed or from his brother’s), they would inherit before Onan would. So what Onan was doing was protecting his place in the line of inheritance.
I’ve always had a problem with this story being used as the basis for masturbation being a sin. The sin of Onan wasn’t masturbation, but coitus interruptus. And even that wasn’t the actual sin, which was denying his dead brother an heir.
I don’t know if onanism/masturbation is viewed the same way in Judaism as it is in Christianity.
This was fascinating, Bruce. Being raised Catholic, I had heard that his “sin” was masturbation. Being a precocious child, I had accidentally found out firsthand about masturbation when I was around 5 years old. Later, when I discovered that this was a “sin”, I used to pray to god to free me from it. And yet I still did it, because it felt good. My mom, when she caught me, told me that if I kept doing that, I wouldn’t be able to have babies. Even at that young age, I thought to myself, that’s okay. Taking care of babies doesn’t look like as much fun as this is.
Your explanation of this makes MUCH more sense. I mean, what guy would turn down sex with a “happy ending” unless it impacted him financially.
Last Thursday I told my doctor I was having difficulty going (peeing) at night and he put me on Tamsulosin (flomax). It has an immediate, curious side effect, no… seed spillage when you’re doing the other thing. Judaism sees the intentional spillage of seed as a waste and sin too, so if there’s none to spill, does that make masturbation okay?
Was your difficulty going or going too much?
So Flomax interferes with semen production? If I read this write you’re not having an ejaculate? Does that make the experience less pleasant?
Bruce I felt like I was trying to pee thru a cinder block. And yes, there’s no discharge when you finish. It’s a bit anticlimactic…
How do you know you’re done?
My issue is peeing a bit too regularly. No problem with producing or volume. There’s just a lot of urine and a general feeling that I need to visit the porcelain god.
This really isn’t a new thing. My family went on at lot of road trips and I was infamous for needing to stop at every rest stop and various points in between.
Then you definitely don’t need Flomax! As for knowing when you’re done with the other thing, you still have an orgasm. Good grief I’m gonna go stick my head in the sand!
I could add to this as I had my prostate removed (cancer) about 12 years ago. No seed spillage here, but not much reduction in the sin part either. Not a bad outcome, actually.
Hey Jono:
Buddy of mine had his prostate removed also due to cancer. He didn’t relate anything about performance issues. His complaint was that he had to constantly think about not peeing. Some aspect of the surgery killed his bladder control.
Father of a friend of mine was diagnosed with prostate cancer over ten years ago. He was in his 70s and opted for no treatment. He is still a going concern.
Is this your idea of a Mother’s Day post?
I can’t help but wonder, since you brought mothers into it, if this product could be used as a form of birth control. A very interesting insight into men’s issues, guys!
Ooooo! Interesting point! I didn’t think of that, but it makes sense.
Vicki, I just laughed so hard, my dogs jumped!
Oh, god, this made me laugh so hard!
Doug — please don’t stick your head in the sand. I LOVED the whole exchange between you and Bruce. And leaned a lot about Flomax as well. Not that I need it. I limit my liquid consumption when I’m going garage-saling or running lots of errands. There just are not enough public restrooms around. Just this morning, while saling, I had to go. I saw a porta-potty in someone’s yard because they were having work done on their home. I used it.
And — remember that I said that I was a precocious child. I used to dogear the “dirty” parts in the bible and read them as porn when I was a kid. I had a Catholic upbringing and zero access to porn, so that was it.
I remember back in Catholic school, first thing in the morning, one kid would have a turn lighting a candle and reciting a bible verse at random. Wouldn’t you know I randomly picked one of the sexy ones. When I realized what it was, I quickly stopped mid-sentence and did some other verse. Of course, had it been present-day Mimi, I would have not only went on with my original choice, but recited it in a low, sexy purr with a little hair toss. I would’ve been instantly cool, but back then, I was a “good girl”.
My gosh! Thanks for the feedback and chuckle Mimi… whew it’s warm in here :^)
One of the treatments for “over-active” bladder or “urge incontinence” for women, which I know from personal experience works is botox injections into the bladder. Just had one at OHSU last week which is expected to last around 9 months before I need another one.
Lord love a duck in springtime, I have been out and about all day and only just got to this thread. My goodness but I love you people. Now I have questions I don’t even want the answer to, and I’m kind of wondering if bladders get wrinkly.
Decades ago I was told I have a very enlarged but non-cancerous prostate (Benign Prostatic Hypertrophy). The urologist told me to take Terazosin and Finasteride, and warned that if I didn’t take them, my bladder would, by age 75 or so, become exhausted from trying to squeeze urine out and eventually become completely inelastic, which would cause urinary incontinence. I have followed her directions faithfully. At 72, not incontinent, but still always wondering how far from the next bathroom I am. A diuretic for my blood pressure is, of course, making that worse. And Murr, I don’t know about wrinkly, but the urologist looked through her cystoscope and said I have spider veins. And thanks for asking.
Does your bladder keep a bowl of hard candies around?
For spider veins?
Sit down next to me, dear, while I tell you about old ladies and spidery veins. Would you like a butterscotch drop?
It’s not news to me at all, I just didn’t know one could have them in the bladder. Sure, I’ll take a butterscotch drop.
Good to know. I think I need to run off and see a urologist.
There’s always something better to do than go see the urologist.
I went to see one decades ago when I developed prostatitis. He retired not long afterward, hopefully not because of my visit. My primary wants me to see another one. I really wish the other guy was still in business. My favorite doctors have a tendency to retire.
Pharmacological footnotes: Terazosin is also used off-label at a much higher does for treatment of PTSD, and Finasteride can stop hair loss but must be kept away from any contact by pregnant women — they shouldn’t even touch it.
And later in Chapter 38, good old Judah runs into his daughter-in-law, and apparently likes the looks of her, so he gives her a ring, a string, and a stick in order to have sex with her. And she gets pregnant. Really, it goes on from there. Threats, killings, babies almost getting born but then sucked back in. I am not making this up. I found a website called “Easy English Bible” that explains it all.
Oh…right. This was a post about the Bible.
Sort of.
Come for the post; stay for the tangents.
A story worthy of the old Maury Povitch show.
I can see the ring, but why a string and a stick, I wonder? And no, “Easy English Bible” clearly does not explain it all. I now have more questions than initially.
You’re right, Susan, Genesis is completely nuts from start to finish (or almost-finish).
P.S. “Apatheist” in a gem.
Wish I could take credit for that one. But I do use it!
Well, Doug, I had the same problem with Flomax. My doctor was concerned that I had to get up so often during the night I wasn’t getting enough sleep. Flomax let me pee more when I visited the porcelain god (or an unsuspecting plant) so I didn’t have to go as often. I could even watch a whole movie without missing some critical conversation. But the side effect was a “retrograde ejaculation”, where the semen takes a wrong turn into the bladder. Still feels good, and the doc said it was harmless, but it was unnerving. She (my sympathetic doc) prescribed Doxazosin which has the same benefits as Flomax without the weird side effect.
I save my Flomax for in case I need assistance with passing a kidney stone, which thank heavens hasn’t happened to me in decades. I wonder how similar Doxazosin is to Terazosin.
Strange things always happen when Ejaculation is in retrograde.
Suggests new meanings for the phrase “Come back!”
I don’t know how this happened but I somehow haven’t seen your Murrmurrs for weeks! Usually I see your Facebook posts at least every couple of weeks and then I catch up.
I just spent all afternoon remedying that terrible omission. I still need to go back and read all the comments, as they are usually almost as entertaining as the posts themselves!